The central tension several readers identified is real: a piece built on germ theory assumptions, presented to an audience increasingly skeptical of that paradigm. maria b put it directly: "How strange to consider, on one hand, viruses don't exist and, on the other, Vit C produces profound healing in cases of viral exposure."
I don't resolve this by pretending it isn't there. Levy operates from conventional frameworks. Many of you don't. What interests me is that Klenner's clinical outcomes don't depend on which model you prefer. A child recovers from polio in days. A snakebite victim survives. Sepsis reverses. The electron-donor function of vitamin C operates at a biochemical level that precedes our arguments about causation. I extract clinical insights from researchers whose theoretical commitments differ from mine. This seems more honest than ignoring useful data because it comes wrapped in the wrong language.
On the practical question Al DuClur raised—whether oral supplementation is pointless without IV access—no. Levy is clear that liposomal vitamin C can outperform IV in many situations. For healthy adults, he recommends 6,000-12,000mg daily in divided doses, calibrated individually through Cathcart's bowel tolerance method. The point isn't that IV is the only worthwhile approach; it's that most studies showing "no effect" used doses too low to matter—often 60-200mg when the therapeutic threshold for serious illness may be 50,000mg or more.
Yeowoman raised the rebound effect, which is real but limited—Levy advises tapering rather than abrupt cessation. The eye damage concern I couldn't locate in Levy's material; if you have sources, I'd like to see them.
INGRID C DURDEN captured something I appreciate: "I don't care too much about either germ or terrain theories, because both of them are theories. I go with what works." That's approximately my position. The clinical literature spans nearly a century. These outcomes don't require theoretical agreement to be useful.
It is strange to read since a lot of it just assumes viruses are real along with assuming germ theory in general.
Also, the question of "What exactly is Vitamin C?" comes to mind. Ascorbic Acid is actually a synthetic derived from GMO corn and is heavily processed. One would think that this can't be a healthy thing taken in large doses, especially intravenously yet here we are with these research findings. I'm not sure what to think.
My personal experiences with using large doses of the powder were unspectacular really.
I'm a firm believer in an "ounce of prevention" rather than "pound of cure". Eat a healthy diet, educate yourself, stay away from vaxxines, Pharma, and hospitals in general.
Hmmmm . Two points. One is that when you come off a high dose vit C i think you can fall into worse problems than you started with due to rebound as the body becomes dependent on the supplementation, so you need to taper off gently.
Number two, as I understand it scurvy wasnt especially related to vitc . Its cause and cure were discovered well before the vit c hypothesis. It was a generalised malabsorption syndrome caused by gut irritation from cooking pots on ships... many current seemingly 'scurvy' cases are similar if what I've read and experienced is correct.
oh and number Three... the danger of eye damage from high dose vit C is worth thinking about. I definitely notice a negative effect on my eyes from the few times I tried to artificially elevate my levels of it. Im not into vitamin supplements at all as such so I think that on high doses this could be even more marked. Its worth reading up on.
Interesting comment re Vit C and eye damage. This is new to me, and I will look into it.
I have spent a lifetime on "high dose" (daily supplementation of 4-5 grams) Vit C. I have gone as high as 25-30 grams over 24 hours if I've felt "something coming on." When I say I do not get sick, I mean going for years and years without a "cold" or the flu. Dry throat when the heat first comes on at the start of winter, but I've figured that out, too.
My own personal experience is that Vit C is a critical key to lifelong health and illness/disease prevention.
Its odd but I never got any childhood illnesses or any illnesses. Trying vit c for a short while I did get a flu type illness .. not had that once I stopped it. I think we are all in rather different situations. I dont mind the notion of the stuff but i would personally hate to be dependent on any pill .
If our creator intended for us to input external substances into our veins bypassing all protections I think it would have created a syringe hole with a cover on our bodies - but that's not what was given. I wouldn't shoot anything into my veins, ever.
Vitamins, like viruses, have never been properly isolated. In any case synthetic chemicals and natural foods are two different things. Shannon Rowan is good on this topic:).
How strange to consider, on one hand, viruses don’t exist and, on the other, Vit c produces profound healing in cases of viral exposure…
I’ve read that all vit c now is produced from black mold or aspergillis niger, can’t remember the details. Does dr levy talk about sources or appropriate forms of vit c?
Interesting! the fact that he got de-certified and scolded for healing people says he all. He found a way to heal people instead of treating them! Patients lost to health!
I don't care too much about either germ or terrain theories, because both of them are theories. I go with what works. We just had a discussion yesterday about giving animals meds for flea and ticks. I was scolded for 'poisoning my dog'. I wondered afterwards how many meds the person who said this was on? I stick with what works, no matter what framework the doc works with. If my dog does well with the meds and does not get fleas or ticks, good. When she did we changed meds.
Most of the time herbs and homeopathics work, sometimes they don't and then we have to find someone who has another method... if it is supplementing with something, as long as it heals, why not try it? specially if it does not harm. The spectacular results of this doctor prove he was right. But healed patients bring no money for the Bigfarma.
Supplements again! A good article but it supports the consumerism behind orthodox health - ill? Buy something and take it. How, I wonder are we so short of the essentials in the first place? This calls for an investigation into the question of whether soil "depletion" is a myth or not.
Vitamin C is not just a vitamin; it’s a primary life-support molecule. Dr. Thomas Levy’s Curing the Incurable shows that humans live at a biological disadvantage—unlike most animals, we lost the liver enzyme that produces vitamin C in massive, self-adjusting quantities. When the body is under viral, bacterial, or toxic assault, vitamin C is burned at astonishing rates, and only huge therapeutic doses—often tens of thousands of milligrams, ideally IV or liposomal—restore what nature intended. That’s why early clinicians like Klenner cured polio, shingles, viral encephalitis, and even snake venom poisoning with nothing but properly dosed vitamin C, while modern medicine still offers “supportive care.” Vitamin C fuels electron flow, powers immune cells, neutralizes toxins, kills pathogens directly, and does so with stunning safety—no patents, no profit, no glory. Levy’s message is simple: most “incurable” infections aren’t incurable at all; they’re under-dosed.
Fascinating. However, I am not gong to go get regular ivs of c so am wondering what this means for supplements? If you're not taking 100 1000mg pills a day, forget about it?
Here is Paul Marik, MD describing his experience using high dose IV Vitamin V + Hydrocortisone + Thiamine for patients with sepsis in the Intensive Care Unit where he was working...https://youtu.be/yfXVce34A78?si=YjGviyMSxuiNYpLG
Just a brief observation from reviewing the comments from this thread. My apologies for the criticism, I hope you understand that I hold you in the highest regard. This is just intended as food for thought.
Anytime I see comments along the lines of "just eat right" I hear moralism: good vs bad, right vs wrong. That is binary thinking.
Now go and read some of what Meryl Nass has recently shared about how binary choices are used to shut down critical thought.
Why would so many binary thinkers be commenting on your essays?
Medicine Girl is pretty much my poster child for someone who encourages binary thinking. She claims to be the antithesis of Big Pharma, yet much of what she publishes actually helps their agenda. Is she helping us or manipulating us? Is binary thinking her tool for bringing people back to the herd before they are lost forever once they learn to think critically?
--------------------
You start your essay for apologizing for Dr Levy's beliefs. As though listening to anyone who ever believed in germ theory (which up to about a decade ago included virtually the entire planet) is akin to the current apostasy-du-jour.
I had read extensively on health for 15 years before hearing about Terrain Theory from John Bergman around 2018. Maybe 1% of the planet was on that page at that time. Perhaps now it might be 10% (though likely higher on Substack).
Tom Levy was writing about ascorbic acid in 2006. Someone please explain to me how anyone could write a health book at that time about ANYTHING that wasn't trying to explain things in terms of germ theory? That's how paradigms change - you look for explanations that fit the current paradigm, and when that paradigm fails, you look for a new paradigm that offers a better explanation! Tom Levy was leading us all toward a new health paradigm. He shouldn't need to apologize for the route he took in getting us there, and you shouldn't be apologizing for him.
It's worth doing some digging to find Dr. Levy's talk on "ascorbazone," which is his portmanteau for combining ascorbic acid (oral and IV), liposomal C and ozone to treat people with some very difficult conditions. Regardless of what health ideology anyone professes, you can't beat empiricism - what you observe directly is more valuable than all the theories in the world. And if oxidative therapies aren't the perfect solution, they are among the cheapest and most effective out there. If everyone were to wake up to what these therapies can do to counter the toxicity of our world, there wouldn't be the "need" for a massive (and massively ineffective) healthcare system on this planet.
Given a choice between spending a few bucks per day on Vitamin C and ozone vs falling into the clutches of a predatory healthcare system, I'll take the former.
Levy's belief is that acute focal infections are the cause of pretty much all chronic diseases. He initially thought that those were primarily in the mouth and sinuses, though he learned through personal experience that tonsils can harbor hidden infections as well. Add to that list skin infections (including stuff like toenail fungus), lung damage from particulates and leaky gut, and you have most of the suspects that are responsible for your declining health.
Address those infections and your health will improve. Maybe if you get Biblical about food and diet you can turn the corner, though with so many toxins in this world I personally think that is a huge crap shoot. Or maybe you do the best you can with diet and get some help from cheap, safe and effective oxidative therapies like C and ozone. If you are battling a chronic disease, the latter will give you results far quicker than the former. And if you only have another decade or two of life expectancy, the sooner you turn the tide against chronic infections, the more likely it is that your life expectancy will increase and that there will be more quality in your life.
I thought it would discuss cancer, as that would be important to so many people. Also, as another commenter mentioned, getting daily IV treatments is not practical for most. I’ve read so much varied information about which oral vitamin C to take it is confusing. I’ve tried a powder form from whole fruits and plants. I know he mentioned lipsomal so I will look into that. Anyone have any insight into the best oral vitamin C options.
I was taking a brand called Core that gets good reviews. It was time to reorder, but switched to Dr. Mercola's brand of liposomal Vitamin C, as I trust the quality of his supplements. It's available from Amazon, or from Dr. Mercola's site.
Thanks for the information. I went to the web-site for this product & read all about it. Very interesting. I like that is comes as either a capsule or a powder. As a powder, you can add as much or as little as you like to other things, such as yoghurt. I may order some.
Author's Note
The central tension several readers identified is real: a piece built on germ theory assumptions, presented to an audience increasingly skeptical of that paradigm. maria b put it directly: "How strange to consider, on one hand, viruses don't exist and, on the other, Vit C produces profound healing in cases of viral exposure."
I don't resolve this by pretending it isn't there. Levy operates from conventional frameworks. Many of you don't. What interests me is that Klenner's clinical outcomes don't depend on which model you prefer. A child recovers from polio in days. A snakebite victim survives. Sepsis reverses. The electron-donor function of vitamin C operates at a biochemical level that precedes our arguments about causation. I extract clinical insights from researchers whose theoretical commitments differ from mine. This seems more honest than ignoring useful data because it comes wrapped in the wrong language.
On the practical question Al DuClur raised—whether oral supplementation is pointless without IV access—no. Levy is clear that liposomal vitamin C can outperform IV in many situations. For healthy adults, he recommends 6,000-12,000mg daily in divided doses, calibrated individually through Cathcart's bowel tolerance method. The point isn't that IV is the only worthwhile approach; it's that most studies showing "no effect" used doses too low to matter—often 60-200mg when the therapeutic threshold for serious illness may be 50,000mg or more.
Yeowoman raised the rebound effect, which is real but limited—Levy advises tapering rather than abrupt cessation. The eye damage concern I couldn't locate in Levy's material; if you have sources, I'd like to see them.
INGRID C DURDEN captured something I appreciate: "I don't care too much about either germ or terrain theories, because both of them are theories. I go with what works." That's approximately my position. The clinical literature spans nearly a century. These outcomes don't require theoretical agreement to be useful.
Nice work on the article.
It is strange to read since a lot of it just assumes viruses are real along with assuming germ theory in general.
Also, the question of "What exactly is Vitamin C?" comes to mind. Ascorbic Acid is actually a synthetic derived from GMO corn and is heavily processed. One would think that this can't be a healthy thing taken in large doses, especially intravenously yet here we are with these research findings. I'm not sure what to think.
My personal experiences with using large doses of the powder were unspectacular really.
I'm a firm believer in an "ounce of prevention" rather than "pound of cure". Eat a healthy diet, educate yourself, stay away from vaxxines, Pharma, and hospitals in general.
Hmmmm . Two points. One is that when you come off a high dose vit C i think you can fall into worse problems than you started with due to rebound as the body becomes dependent on the supplementation, so you need to taper off gently.
Number two, as I understand it scurvy wasnt especially related to vitc . Its cause and cure were discovered well before the vit c hypothesis. It was a generalised malabsorption syndrome caused by gut irritation from cooking pots on ships... many current seemingly 'scurvy' cases are similar if what I've read and experienced is correct.
oh and number Three... the danger of eye damage from high dose vit C is worth thinking about. I definitely notice a negative effect on my eyes from the few times I tried to artificially elevate my levels of it. Im not into vitamin supplements at all as such so I think that on high doses this could be even more marked. Its worth reading up on.
Interesting comment re Vit C and eye damage. This is new to me, and I will look into it.
I have spent a lifetime on "high dose" (daily supplementation of 4-5 grams) Vit C. I have gone as high as 25-30 grams over 24 hours if I've felt "something coming on." When I say I do not get sick, I mean going for years and years without a "cold" or the flu. Dry throat when the heat first comes on at the start of winter, but I've figured that out, too.
My own personal experience is that Vit C is a critical key to lifelong health and illness/disease prevention.
Its odd but I never got any childhood illnesses or any illnesses. Trying vit c for a short while I did get a flu type illness .. not had that once I stopped it. I think we are all in rather different situations. I dont mind the notion of the stuff but i would personally hate to be dependent on any pill .
I get you. Thanks.
Article emphasizes IV over oral to the point oral is a waste of money and effort.
yes .. good things have been written about IVC for decades. I try to avoid anything injected myself . in extremis I guess I’d try it.
If our creator intended for us to input external substances into our veins bypassing all protections I think it would have created a syringe hole with a cover on our bodies - but that's not what was given. I wouldn't shoot anything into my veins, ever.
Vitamins, like viruses, have never been properly isolated. In any case synthetic chemicals and natural foods are two different things. Shannon Rowan is good on this topic:).
How strange to consider, on one hand, viruses don’t exist and, on the other, Vit c produces profound healing in cases of viral exposure…
I’ve read that all vit c now is produced from black mold or aspergillis niger, can’t remember the details. Does dr levy talk about sources or appropriate forms of vit c?
Interesting! the fact that he got de-certified and scolded for healing people says he all. He found a way to heal people instead of treating them! Patients lost to health!
I don't care too much about either germ or terrain theories, because both of them are theories. I go with what works. We just had a discussion yesterday about giving animals meds for flea and ticks. I was scolded for 'poisoning my dog'. I wondered afterwards how many meds the person who said this was on? I stick with what works, no matter what framework the doc works with. If my dog does well with the meds and does not get fleas or ticks, good. When she did we changed meds.
Most of the time herbs and homeopathics work, sometimes they don't and then we have to find someone who has another method... if it is supplementing with something, as long as it heals, why not try it? specially if it does not harm. The spectacular results of this doctor prove he was right. But healed patients bring no money for the Bigfarma.
Supplements again! A good article but it supports the consumerism behind orthodox health - ill? Buy something and take it. How, I wonder are we so short of the essentials in the first place? This calls for an investigation into the question of whether soil "depletion" is a myth or not.
Vitamin C is not just a vitamin; it’s a primary life-support molecule. Dr. Thomas Levy’s Curing the Incurable shows that humans live at a biological disadvantage—unlike most animals, we lost the liver enzyme that produces vitamin C in massive, self-adjusting quantities. When the body is under viral, bacterial, or toxic assault, vitamin C is burned at astonishing rates, and only huge therapeutic doses—often tens of thousands of milligrams, ideally IV or liposomal—restore what nature intended. That’s why early clinicians like Klenner cured polio, shingles, viral encephalitis, and even snake venom poisoning with nothing but properly dosed vitamin C, while modern medicine still offers “supportive care.” Vitamin C fuels electron flow, powers immune cells, neutralizes toxins, kills pathogens directly, and does so with stunning safety—no patents, no profit, no glory. Levy’s message is simple: most “incurable” infections aren’t incurable at all; they’re under-dosed.
Fascinating. However, I am not gong to go get regular ivs of c so am wondering what this means for supplements? If you're not taking 100 1000mg pills a day, forget about it?
Here is Paul Marik, MD describing his experience using high dose IV Vitamin V + Hydrocortisone + Thiamine for patients with sepsis in the Intensive Care Unit where he was working...https://youtu.be/yfXVce34A78?si=YjGviyMSxuiNYpLG
If our bodies didnt lack the capacity to produce C vitamine, it appears we would grow in number.
Perhaps that is the reason. Population control.
Just a brief observation from reviewing the comments from this thread. My apologies for the criticism, I hope you understand that I hold you in the highest regard. This is just intended as food for thought.
Anytime I see comments along the lines of "just eat right" I hear moralism: good vs bad, right vs wrong. That is binary thinking.
Now go and read some of what Meryl Nass has recently shared about how binary choices are used to shut down critical thought.
https://open.substack.com/pub/merylnass/p/binary-brainwashing-has-been-going?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer
Why would so many binary thinkers be commenting on your essays?
Medicine Girl is pretty much my poster child for someone who encourages binary thinking. She claims to be the antithesis of Big Pharma, yet much of what she publishes actually helps their agenda. Is she helping us or manipulating us? Is binary thinking her tool for bringing people back to the herd before they are lost forever once they learn to think critically?
--------------------
You start your essay for apologizing for Dr Levy's beliefs. As though listening to anyone who ever believed in germ theory (which up to about a decade ago included virtually the entire planet) is akin to the current apostasy-du-jour.
I had read extensively on health for 15 years before hearing about Terrain Theory from John Bergman around 2018. Maybe 1% of the planet was on that page at that time. Perhaps now it might be 10% (though likely higher on Substack).
Tom Levy was writing about ascorbic acid in 2006. Someone please explain to me how anyone could write a health book at that time about ANYTHING that wasn't trying to explain things in terms of germ theory? That's how paradigms change - you look for explanations that fit the current paradigm, and when that paradigm fails, you look for a new paradigm that offers a better explanation! Tom Levy was leading us all toward a new health paradigm. He shouldn't need to apologize for the route he took in getting us there, and you shouldn't be apologizing for him.
It's worth doing some digging to find Dr. Levy's talk on "ascorbazone," which is his portmanteau for combining ascorbic acid (oral and IV), liposomal C and ozone to treat people with some very difficult conditions. Regardless of what health ideology anyone professes, you can't beat empiricism - what you observe directly is more valuable than all the theories in the world. And if oxidative therapies aren't the perfect solution, they are among the cheapest and most effective out there. If everyone were to wake up to what these therapies can do to counter the toxicity of our world, there wouldn't be the "need" for a massive (and massively ineffective) healthcare system on this planet.
Given a choice between spending a few bucks per day on Vitamin C and ozone vs falling into the clutches of a predatory healthcare system, I'll take the former.
Levy's belief is that acute focal infections are the cause of pretty much all chronic diseases. He initially thought that those were primarily in the mouth and sinuses, though he learned through personal experience that tonsils can harbor hidden infections as well. Add to that list skin infections (including stuff like toenail fungus), lung damage from particulates and leaky gut, and you have most of the suspects that are responsible for your declining health.
Address those infections and your health will improve. Maybe if you get Biblical about food and diet you can turn the corner, though with so many toxins in this world I personally think that is a huge crap shoot. Or maybe you do the best you can with diet and get some help from cheap, safe and effective oxidative therapies like C and ozone. If you are battling a chronic disease, the latter will give you results far quicker than the former. And if you only have another decade or two of life expectancy, the sooner you turn the tide against chronic infections, the more likely it is that your life expectancy will increase and that there will be more quality in your life.
Please read Dr Tom Levy’s book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C
It's pretty far from natural. Knocked up in a lab.!!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemistry_of_ascorbic_acid
Where on earth are people getting their daily hit of this stuff. And from what.?!
https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/vitamin-c/
Anyone got any recommendations. I mean even Fruits and peppers, tomatoes, etc...
are full of sugars.!!
Jury's out on this one, I'm afraid.. Good luck to all who sail in HMS Ascorbic Acid.!!
I thought it would discuss cancer, as that would be important to so many people. Also, as another commenter mentioned, getting daily IV treatments is not practical for most. I’ve read so much varied information about which oral vitamin C to take it is confusing. I’ve tried a powder form from whole fruits and plants. I know he mentioned lipsomal so I will look into that. Anyone have any insight into the best oral vitamin C options.
Organic real food period. Orange, lemon etc. Research organic food and stick with that only.
I was taking a brand called Core that gets good reviews. It was time to reorder, but switched to Dr. Mercola's brand of liposomal Vitamin C, as I trust the quality of his supplements. It's available from Amazon, or from Dr. Mercola's site.
I’ve also use a brand called Wild Force Markus Vitamin C from Amazon. It’s supposed to be all natural.
Thanks for the information. I went to the web-site for this product & read all about it. Very interesting. I like that is comes as either a capsule or a powder. As a powder, you can add as much or as little as you like to other things, such as yoghurt. I may order some.
Just eat organic food. It is whole just like you seek to be.