I agree with everything in the above essay. I'm a 67 year-old guy with Aspergers, and always had a tough time dating. But I'm pretty smart, I obtained my electrical engineering degree at age 22, and bought my first house at age 23 in Southern California. By age 40, I still wasn't married, decided to become a physician, and got into medical school pretty easily. In my third year, I met my wife, and we had 2 daughters. The marriage was a disaster (she treated me badly and openly despised me; she only wanted my services as a provider and father), but I stuck it out with her for 20 years to give our daughters a two-parent home. After years of being lectured on the evils of patriarchy, with innuendo that I was her oppressor if I wasn't sufficiently feminist myself, and years of being breadcrumbed (at best), I was spent, and felt no amount of hardship and poverty could be worse than staying with her. I initiated the divorce, and consented to financial ruin so my money didn't go lawyers, and to keep my daughters from getting the covid shots. I lost everything except my personal belongings, and I pay bigtime alimony and child-support (youngest is 15). At least as self-employed doctor, I can cover that and I don't have to retire. My divorce payments will end when I'm 71, and then I should be able to rebuild some assets.
But I see my daughters 2-4 times per week, and we have a solid relationship. I'm grateful I have them. They have made my life. I did the best I could at the time and have no regrets. There is much wisdom in "It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". I'm glad I wasn't listing to a Rich Cooper. You shouldn't either.
Life is risk. I am so glad you are solid with your children, not saying that lightly either. Did you know daughters will more than likely have partners that will resemble their fathers? They look up to their fathers. (good ones & bad ones)
You accomplished a great deal before you were married. I would be proud of you if I were your parent. The biggest and costly decision you made, not knowing that person enough to know she was a true soul mate. I call it picket fence syndrome. You accomplished materialistically and career wise, so go for the gusto to finish the rest of the plan of life success. Marriage & children.......happy ever after. Many women & men have done the same thing. (how else do you think i know very well what happens)
It makes me very happy that it hasn't turned you off of marriage. Everyone deserves to spend their life with a true soul mate. Yours is out there. Lesson learned but not gun shy.
Thank you for not becoming a 'woman hater'. I know way too many women who have become 'man haters' for their own mistakes made. I also do believe Andrew shows that if you both believe in morals and God, it helps you chose the right person.
Evidently, your ex didn't. Keep your chin up and keep doing the great work of love with those girls!
Listen we have all seen and heard the horror stories. We all have friends who have been f***** over by divorce, some spectacularly so. I know so many men whose wives refuse to have sex with them. These are good men. You will never convince me that it is a good deal. Not a million years. Just because you don't divorce doesn't mean that your life is happy
By the way I have been happily married for 37 years. There is no way in God's green earth I would take that risk again
From a young age, I knew I didn't want to ever be a father. I knew at a later age that I would be a really bad father. I didn't have kids and never regretted it. I think that sometimes people say how they couldn't imagine not having kids, the greatest part of their lives, but could it also be that when you have devoted all your time for a couple decades to raising a kid, you just can no longer imagine having had that time to travel, do all kinds of things you love, pursuing your own interests? Like having lost a finger on your hand. You no longer remember when you had that finger and how different it felt. We become used to the situation we find ourselves in. Not to say there aren't people who love parenting but I see folks that marry and then think this is the next step, whether they want it or not. It's just expected. I find it hard to believe that children living in a household of a broken marriage would be better off with the parents staying together if those parents are hostile to each other all the time, expressing no love. Separation may allow both parents to find things that enrich their lives and by extension, enrich their children's well being.
I’ve worked as social worker for abused children and you’re completely right about the negative outcome of "stable" marriages where parents yell at each other all day long (or worse, including physical violence and psychological maneuvers to destroy the other). I think it's far more destructive than a divorce where parents finally can respect each other as a parent, even if their personal relationship has come to an end.
You are lucky enough to have stuck by your guns. We all navagate our own life and if we do not want something because our personality wants 'different' than the norm of the times, stick to it. At least you didn't let presure change what you wanted in life. Not everyone is made to parent or marriage.
This whole idea of going into marriage knowing the risks is ridiculous. I know far more couples that have been married for 20, 30 or over 40 years than I do divorced couples. Happy couples? I would say maybe one or two not so much.
Always religious minded? About 50-50. I am just not one of them...two divorces and now married for a third time over 50 years. I fully accept that I may not have made the best choices earlier in life.
I know a few people in their 60s and 70's and never married or that waited until later in life to tie the knot. Never put yourself into a statistical box or a one-size-fits-all bunch of BS. Percentages are for losers. You are not a percentage, you are a human.
I’m glad you covered this debate. A recipe for unhappiness is to be a man alone. Men make social bonds with much more difficulty than women do. A man married to a woman has a much better chance of making friends and having a social life and social connections. The Red Pill guys out there are helping young men justify inertia that will make them unhappy for the rest of their life. Since most men are not going to become rich and famous, they end up with nothing.
Great piece. I was married 19 years, 1 child 7 grandchildren. Worth every dime. Also, pedants would point at note 5 and say you probably mean US Health and Human Services (HHS) not DHS. But I won't mention it.
Addendum: If you do not find a 'good' wife, it's better to be single. This mean that most good men will end being single ( the other way round is also true but to a lesser extent).
best advice to know and understand, look at the relationship between your girl Friend and her dad because your going to get that relationship in the end. If she hates her father she is going to hate you. If its a healthy loving relationship your going to experience the same.
RS- There is actually a lot of truth in this statement. However, I’ve been happily married for 36 years. We still enjoy each other’s company. Humor goes a long way. My dad was an alcoholic narcissistic ASS. I remember watching Happy Days as a kid and wishing my dad was as kind and involved as that dad. Luckily I had an amazing mother. We have two adult kids who married great people and are very happy. So who knows the secret 🤷♀️
Just snickering because this came out so close to Valentines Day. The ever popular 'shacking up' option seems the safest, keep the government out of it.
Safest for whom? The man? The woman? The children who might arrive?
Whether government is involved or not is irrelevant. Whether 'shacking up' or marriage is the action taken is irrelevant. The main thing to consider in a relationship BEFORE moving in together is commitment, a stick-to-it attitude of perseverance no matter the cost. How committed am I to staying together, to making it work, to growing and prospering our relationship, to learning how to love my partner? If I am committed, it can work, might work. If I am not committed and inclined to bail at the first sign of trouble, it will fail.
This brings up the issue of sacrificial living. Am I willing to sacrifice myself, my wants and desires, my comfort and well-being for the betterment of the person I am involved with? This becomes even more prominent if children are present. As a man, is my woman more important to me than I am to myself? Are my children worth what it costs me?
For the man who answers, "Yes!" to these questions, it naturally follows that he is going to be committed to doing whatever is necessary. For the one who says, "No!", there is nothing his woman (or his children) can do to change his mind, attitude, or lifestyle. For him, the grass will always appear greener outside the fence. Likewise with the woman. If she is not committed and willing to do whatever it takes, it will probably not last, and someone taller, richer, and more handsome is always just around the corner.
Marriage, legally taken and socially recognized, at least has the implication of commitment in it. Shacking up on a whim does not.
How much you are willing to sacrifice is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that college educated women initiate 90% of their divorces. You can’t make somebody stay in a marriage. Most divorced men end up divorced involuntarily
You may be right, but I did not say that sacrificing for your woman would guarantee your marriage. My point was that if you are willing to commit yourself (personal sacrifice) for the sake of your family, your chances of staying married are much better than if you are not.
The question is, are you willing? It doesn't matter whether you partner is willing or not. Are you willing? Because, if you're not, there is no point in moving forward.
You can live in the world the way it was built to be lived in, with a mate, or not. Older traditions, those that have not been fully corrupted, are going to be wiser. But these days I always need to ask, is that person just unwise, or are they corrupt? But at the end of the day destructive philosophies are just that.
Fascinating. Poor kids of divorced families. Sad for young men trying to make such important, life impacting decisions. Unfortunately, our country is in a downward spiral. What’s to become of our nation?
We either find a different compass to follow or we don't exist any longer. I feel badly for the shallowness of it all. Love is giving &&&&& receiving. Not equally, but some balance.
Now days, it's me first and junk, disposable everything. No pride in oneself.
Thoughts of a young man who doesn't have the wisdom to know he is wrong. He is just going for clicks and views to make buck. The best thing in a mans life is a loving wife, Find one and love her back. Don't do rent to own. Go right to own and work out the kinks while your young.
Wow. As a single mother of a son who is 36 yo and single (separation at 6 wks of age) I shed a few tears reading your essay. I applaud you for promoting the value and importance of marriage and family. There are many obstacles and challenges for men and women these days to create families. The cultural and societal changes and perhaps planned destruction of these values is at a crisis point. I wanted to forward this article to my son, but decided against it because of the statistic you cited “that childhood divorce (ages 0-5) produced the worst long- term results.” I do not want to reinforce that statistic.
I agree with everything in the above essay. I'm a 67 year-old guy with Aspergers, and always had a tough time dating. But I'm pretty smart, I obtained my electrical engineering degree at age 22, and bought my first house at age 23 in Southern California. By age 40, I still wasn't married, decided to become a physician, and got into medical school pretty easily. In my third year, I met my wife, and we had 2 daughters. The marriage was a disaster (she treated me badly and openly despised me; she only wanted my services as a provider and father), but I stuck it out with her for 20 years to give our daughters a two-parent home. After years of being lectured on the evils of patriarchy, with innuendo that I was her oppressor if I wasn't sufficiently feminist myself, and years of being breadcrumbed (at best), I was spent, and felt no amount of hardship and poverty could be worse than staying with her. I initiated the divorce, and consented to financial ruin so my money didn't go lawyers, and to keep my daughters from getting the covid shots. I lost everything except my personal belongings, and I pay bigtime alimony and child-support (youngest is 15). At least as self-employed doctor, I can cover that and I don't have to retire. My divorce payments will end when I'm 71, and then I should be able to rebuild some assets.
But I see my daughters 2-4 times per week, and we have a solid relationship. I'm grateful I have them. They have made my life. I did the best I could at the time and have no regrets. There is much wisdom in "It is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". I'm glad I wasn't listing to a Rich Cooper. You shouldn't either.
Life is risk. I am so glad you are solid with your children, not saying that lightly either. Did you know daughters will more than likely have partners that will resemble their fathers? They look up to their fathers. (good ones & bad ones)
You accomplished a great deal before you were married. I would be proud of you if I were your parent. The biggest and costly decision you made, not knowing that person enough to know she was a true soul mate. I call it picket fence syndrome. You accomplished materialistically and career wise, so go for the gusto to finish the rest of the plan of life success. Marriage & children.......happy ever after. Many women & men have done the same thing. (how else do you think i know very well what happens)
It makes me very happy that it hasn't turned you off of marriage. Everyone deserves to spend their life with a true soul mate. Yours is out there. Lesson learned but not gun shy.
Thank you for not becoming a 'woman hater'. I know way too many women who have become 'man haters' for their own mistakes made. I also do believe Andrew shows that if you both believe in morals and God, it helps you chose the right person.
Evidently, your ex didn't. Keep your chin up and keep doing the great work of love with those girls!
Listen we have all seen and heard the horror stories. We all have friends who have been f***** over by divorce, some spectacularly so. I know so many men whose wives refuse to have sex with them. These are good men. You will never convince me that it is a good deal. Not a million years. Just because you don't divorce doesn't mean that your life is happy
By the way I have been happily married for 37 years. There is no way in God's green earth I would take that risk again
From a young age, I knew I didn't want to ever be a father. I knew at a later age that I would be a really bad father. I didn't have kids and never regretted it. I think that sometimes people say how they couldn't imagine not having kids, the greatest part of their lives, but could it also be that when you have devoted all your time for a couple decades to raising a kid, you just can no longer imagine having had that time to travel, do all kinds of things you love, pursuing your own interests? Like having lost a finger on your hand. You no longer remember when you had that finger and how different it felt. We become used to the situation we find ourselves in. Not to say there aren't people who love parenting but I see folks that marry and then think this is the next step, whether they want it or not. It's just expected. I find it hard to believe that children living in a household of a broken marriage would be better off with the parents staying together if those parents are hostile to each other all the time, expressing no love. Separation may allow both parents to find things that enrich their lives and by extension, enrich their children's well being.
I’ve worked as social worker for abused children and you’re completely right about the negative outcome of "stable" marriages where parents yell at each other all day long (or worse, including physical violence and psychological maneuvers to destroy the other). I think it's far more destructive than a divorce where parents finally can respect each other as a parent, even if their personal relationship has come to an end.
You are lucky enough to have stuck by your guns. We all navagate our own life and if we do not want something because our personality wants 'different' than the norm of the times, stick to it. At least you didn't let presure change what you wanted in life. Not everyone is made to parent or marriage.
Different strokes for different folks.
Puuulease! "Good" men don't have ANY problem getting sex! Two pump chumps on the other hand..........
You've made good points, some of them anyway.
This whole idea of going into marriage knowing the risks is ridiculous. I know far more couples that have been married for 20, 30 or over 40 years than I do divorced couples. Happy couples? I would say maybe one or two not so much.
Always religious minded? About 50-50. I am just not one of them...two divorces and now married for a third time over 50 years. I fully accept that I may not have made the best choices earlier in life.
I know a few people in their 60s and 70's and never married or that waited until later in life to tie the knot. Never put yourself into a statistical box or a one-size-fits-all bunch of BS. Percentages are for losers. You are not a percentage, you are a human.
YES, thank you.
Fantastic post.
I’m glad you covered this debate. A recipe for unhappiness is to be a man alone. Men make social bonds with much more difficulty than women do. A man married to a woman has a much better chance of making friends and having a social life and social connections. The Red Pill guys out there are helping young men justify inertia that will make them unhappy for the rest of their life. Since most men are not going to become rich and famous, they end up with nothing.
Great piece. I was married 19 years, 1 child 7 grandchildren. Worth every dime. Also, pedants would point at note 5 and say you probably mean US Health and Human Services (HHS) not DHS. But I won't mention it.
Never heard of Rich Cooper. Sounds like a delightful guy. Excellent read as always, thank you!
Best advice a dad can give his son: choice your wife carefully because she will either make you glad to be alive or wish you were dead.
Addendum: If you do not find a 'good' wife, it's better to be single. This mean that most good men will end being single ( the other way round is also true but to a lesser extent).
best advice to know and understand, look at the relationship between your girl Friend and her dad because your going to get that relationship in the end. If she hates her father she is going to hate you. If its a healthy loving relationship your going to experience the same.
RS- There is actually a lot of truth in this statement. However, I’ve been happily married for 36 years. We still enjoy each other’s company. Humor goes a long way. My dad was an alcoholic narcissistic ASS. I remember watching Happy Days as a kid and wishing my dad was as kind and involved as that dad. Luckily I had an amazing mother. We have two adult kids who married great people and are very happy. So who knows the secret 🤷♀️
Amen
Lol.
Just snickering because this came out so close to Valentines Day. The ever popular 'shacking up' option seems the safest, keep the government out of it.
Safest for whom? The man? The woman? The children who might arrive?
Whether government is involved or not is irrelevant. Whether 'shacking up' or marriage is the action taken is irrelevant. The main thing to consider in a relationship BEFORE moving in together is commitment, a stick-to-it attitude of perseverance no matter the cost. How committed am I to staying together, to making it work, to growing and prospering our relationship, to learning how to love my partner? If I am committed, it can work, might work. If I am not committed and inclined to bail at the first sign of trouble, it will fail.
This brings up the issue of sacrificial living. Am I willing to sacrifice myself, my wants and desires, my comfort and well-being for the betterment of the person I am involved with? This becomes even more prominent if children are present. As a man, is my woman more important to me than I am to myself? Are my children worth what it costs me?
For the man who answers, "Yes!" to these questions, it naturally follows that he is going to be committed to doing whatever is necessary. For the one who says, "No!", there is nothing his woman (or his children) can do to change his mind, attitude, or lifestyle. For him, the grass will always appear greener outside the fence. Likewise with the woman. If she is not committed and willing to do whatever it takes, it will probably not last, and someone taller, richer, and more handsome is always just around the corner.
Marriage, legally taken and socially recognized, at least has the implication of commitment in it. Shacking up on a whim does not.
How much you are willing to sacrifice is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that college educated women initiate 90% of their divorces. You can’t make somebody stay in a marriage. Most divorced men end up divorced involuntarily
You may be right, but I did not say that sacrificing for your woman would guarantee your marriage. My point was that if you are willing to commit yourself (personal sacrifice) for the sake of your family, your chances of staying married are much better than if you are not.
Both willing. Should be very, in your gut knowing from you both knowing.
The question is, are you willing? It doesn't matter whether you partner is willing or not. Are you willing? Because, if you're not, there is no point in moving forward.
Preach It! Very Good.
Enjoyable to read.
You are in a war zone, 5th generation, total unconventional war,
You are down range and using your mind is the diference between life and death. everything is weaponized.
Courts
Government
Police
Media
Social Media
Food
Water
Shelter
You are down range and using your mind is the difference between life and death.
You can live in the world the way it was built to be lived in, with a mate, or not. Older traditions, those that have not been fully corrupted, are going to be wiser. But these days I always need to ask, is that person just unwise, or are they corrupt? But at the end of the day destructive philosophies are just that.
My grandma (born 1898) said a man should preferably be 30 and his spouse maybe 20 when marrying.
Fascinating. Poor kids of divorced families. Sad for young men trying to make such important, life impacting decisions. Unfortunately, our country is in a downward spiral. What’s to become of our nation?
We either find a different compass to follow or we don't exist any longer. I feel badly for the shallowness of it all. Love is giving &&&&& receiving. Not equally, but some balance.
Now days, it's me first and junk, disposable everything. No pride in oneself.
Thoughts of a young man who doesn't have the wisdom to know he is wrong. He is just going for clicks and views to make buck. The best thing in a mans life is a loving wife, Find one and love her back. Don't do rent to own. Go right to own and work out the kinks while your young.
Wow. As a single mother of a son who is 36 yo and single (separation at 6 wks of age) I shed a few tears reading your essay. I applaud you for promoting the value and importance of marriage and family. There are many obstacles and challenges for men and women these days to create families. The cultural and societal changes and perhaps planned destruction of these values is at a crisis point. I wanted to forward this article to my son, but decided against it because of the statistic you cited “that childhood divorce (ages 0-5) produced the worst long- term results.” I do not want to reinforce that statistic.