Growing up in Iraq, pomegranate was a common fruit.
In fact, chilled pomegranate juice from a street vendor still ranks as one of the best drinks I’ve ever had.
So, when I saw that Jennifer was writing about pomegranate’s, it caught my attention.
I’m glad she agreed to an interview because, as you will see, there is a wealth of information and knowledge in this exchange that goes far beyond pomegranates.
The time and effort Jennifer put into this interview is very much appreciated.
With thanks to Jennifer Depew, R.D.
1. Can you tell us about your background and what led you to become passionate about preventive health and the role of nutrients like iodine and magnesium?
I chose dietetics as a major in college when I was pregnant and so hungry. I was watching bags of groceries turn into my growing baby bump and planning to return to college. My career continued with helping pregnant women learn how to grow a healthy baby with inexpensive groceries. Dietitians learn about supplements, but my clients couldn’t afford them. Pumpkin seeds and magnesium rich nuts and beans were miracle foods for preventing prenatal complications and iodine became a miracle nutrient for my own health. I had years of low thyroid symptoms, but lab tests were always normal. Autoimmune antibodies hadn’t been checked though and I was probably overloaded with the halogens: fluorine and bromine. High dose iodine left me feeling more energetic and weight loss happened easily. The weight came back for other reasons but that is a different story.
2. In the early days, you were an activist advocating for less glyphosate and more iodine and magnesium. What challenges did you face in getting this message out and how did censorship impact your efforts starting back in 2012?
I lost my counselling job in 2010 due to medical marijuana use and that gave me time to spend online which I hadn’t before – long work hours, and I just never got in the habit when internet speeds were slow. Once online I started researching why pumpkin seeds were so effective for my prenatal clients at risk for high blood pressure or preeclampsia and I learned a lot more about magnesium, calcium and also iodine. I dug into the early history of iodine research and apathy of an entire village was described in a study from the 1940s. Providing iodine led to normally energetic people again with children playing. As a prenatal counselor for 15 years I had seen mothers and their children getting more unhealthy and more severely so and birth defects became more common and ‘autism’ appeared as a diagnosis or Pre-Primary Impaired. I had to dig for any information I could find at the time ~ year 2000, regarding odd eating quirks seen in autism. There wasn’t much.
More recently, during my online reading of medical research I also was looking at the role of vitamin D in pre-eclampsia, autoimmune conditions and autism. Vitamin D became trendy as a supplement or to add to foods in 2010 and I got quite concerned having seen oatbran became a ‘health’ trend found in frozen waffles and donuts. I thought that was funny, but I knew vitamin D is a hormone that can reach toxic levels for a few rare conditions and people – parathyroid cancer being an example. Trendy supplementing of a hormone in random foods would be a dangerous trend and make menu planning more difficult if random foods were fortified excessively. I made a Youtube video about vitamin D, magnesium and I added iodine though it was really a separate topic.
There is more to this story and era but to wrap it up, somehow that video went viral. I looked so serious and geeky during a ten-minute talk and then I lit up at the end with a smile. It seemed pop songs had been written about. Seriously. Life got a little weird after that, but I stuck with my message that vitamin D can be dangerous in excess. Media of varied sorts seemed to be used to discredit my message or just to discredit me by suggesting I was ‘crazy’ symbolically or emphasizing my smoking and eventually things got so ugly in the varied media, that my goal of stopping the trendiness of vitamin D supplementation worked in an odd way. No one wanted to talk about anything to do with the mess that had been created surrounding me, which at that point included vitamin D. Things went silent on the vitamin D trend for a year or two.
And later research proved my concerns to be correct – high dose vitamin D supplements were not preventing bone fractures and maybe were adding some cardiovascular risk on average. Later I also learned that my initial thought was wrong about why the US population had lower vitamin D levels than Canadians on average, even though we have more southern regions – glyphosate is the likely cause due to inhibition of CYP enzymes needed in D metabolism.
I knew that some infection types can interfere and cause excess vitamin D activation or prevent break down but it seemed unlikely that the average US person had a rare infection or parathyroid cancer causing excess hormone D and lack of the vitamin form which lab tests measure. Having a low vitamin 25-hydroxy D level might not mean the active 1, 25, dihydroxy D level is also low. And it is a hormone that can cause dysfunction in excess.
Glyphosate is used agriculturally with RoundUp Ready GMO crops and lots of other crops as an end-of-harvest desiccant – kill off the vegetation to make harvest easier – but that is adding a layer of a synthetic amino acid to our food supply right before harvest. Glyphosate is now in biofuel too from use of the biomass left from crops being used. Stephanie Seneff linked biofuel use or production to regions that had more severe Covid19.
Leaded gas was bad, and now we have glyphosate residue in the air from biofuel production and use. It may be worse but discussing which toxin is worse is not a good use of time.
Glyphosate is likely inhibiting an enzyme needed for vitamin D metabolism. Low vitamin D increases risk for CoV infection and worse severity and it would increase a pregnant person’s risk for complications or to have a child that develops autism later. Low iodine levels can also be a risk factor for autism and Alzheimer’s dementia – the two conditions have a lot of similarities in what is going wrong in the brain. There may also be other deficient nutrients like zinc, and B vitamins. Vaccines and other medication use can also be a factor for later autism risk, in addition to genetics. These issues are all risk factors for CoV risk too. In my career as a prenatal and early childhood counselor I saw some families for the entire fifteen years. I watched children grow up from infancy and saw women with very large families get unhealthier. I also saw the repercussions of iodine deficiency of growth patterns. It can leave children as tiny elfin people, small in height and proportionally small or it can lead to a very overweight toddler, which normally or in past ‘normal’ we just didn’t see overweight toddlers. Too much milk and juice lead to picky eating and adds to overweight risks though.
My newly created blog site went viral after Fukashima in 2011 because I had a post comparing kelp as an iodine source with other iodine sources, and it was messy. I was a little embarrassed that my 20 visits a day site had suddenly received 100s of visits. I edited the post and wrote more about the catastrophe. There was a fearful buying frenzy online by people concerned about radioactive iodine drifting over to the California coastline. I was trying to calm fear and pitch kelp as a back-up plan. I started watching site statistics more after that and seemed to have been hacked or something odd was happening with traffic from Romania. I also found my entire site was viewable without the photographs somewhere else. I was a newbie and didn’t know what to think or what to do. That hasn’t changed much either, but I persevere.
3. You've written that bitter tasting or aromatic phytonutrients can be astonishingly effective and safe "medicine" from nature. Can you elaborate on this and share some examples of potent phytonutrients?
The receptors for bitter tasting or aromatic phytonutrients are located throughout the body rather than just being on the tongue or in the nose. The receptors in other locations do work for our cells. A chemical activating a receptor outside of the cell can cause actions to take place inside the cell and it may have allowed calcium to enter which starts the actions inside the cell.
Phytonutrients with antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory and other health benefits include water soluble and fat soluble nutrients. Some may be in a liquid extract in greater concentration while others might be in essential oil.
Essential oils tend to have fragrant terpenes which are volatile, small and fast acting when inhaled or absorbed topically. Water extracts like tea or soup will have more of the water-soluble flavonoids like quercetin, luteolin and kaempferol. They may help soothe anxiety or reduce a histamine flair-up within 20-30 minutes. Essential oils may soothe symptoms even faster – the nose is only 4-5 cells away from a nerve that enters the brain. Curcumin is found in the essential oil of Turmeric.
Curcumin has become well known. It is from the golden turmeric root that is used in curries. It is a vitamin D receptor agonist, meaning it can help us in ways that are similar to the immune system functions of hormone D.
Beta-ionone is fat-soluble phytonutrient, which is a fragrant carotenoid, like vitamin A. It has the aroma of violets, and it helps our skin to make more melanin – so smelling spring flowers is helping our body prepare for summer sunshine. Petunias also have the fragrant chemical and Osmanthus flowers and its essential oil. Osmanthus essential oil or extracts may have anti-tumor and neuroprotective effects. Beta-ionone may help, but so might the small concentration of the potent terpenes eugenol (cloves) and geraniol (geranium). (Wang, et al., 2017) Beta-ionone might be helping. Astaxanthin, a carotenoid made of two ionone units, has neuroprotective benefits. (Su, et al., 2023) Alzheimer’s dementia seems to take about 20 years to develop. Now is a good time to protect our brains from inflammatory damage.
Quercetin is a family of phytonutrients that help as antioxidants and it has antiviral properties as a zinc ionophore. Zinc is needed too then. Citrus and pomegranate peel have quercetin, but it is found in many or most types of produce. Eating a produce rich diet with herbs and spices, such as a 9-a-day anti-cancer plan, may net a person about 500 mg of quercetin a day.
Luteolin is found in green peppers and celery and has similar benefits as quercetin. Both can help with histamine excess symptoms too.
Apigenin is a flavonoid found in "grapefruit, plant-derived beverages and vegetables such as parsley, onions, oranges, tea, chamomile, wheat sprouts and in some seasonings." (19)
Kaempferol is found in Golden Berries along with natural vitamin C and it has anti-viral and anti-inflammatory benefits. It is in similar produce as quercetin, including kale, leeks, onions, broccoli, and also is in blueberries, strawberries, kiwi, and other fruits and berries, (myintakepro), and cinnamon. (23)
Resveratrol is found in grape skins, seeds and wine. It reduces inflammation and has antiviral benefits due to effects on biofilm. It is an estrogen receptor agonist which has anti-inflammatory benefits. Resveratrol is also found in "peanuts, pistachios, blueberries, cranberries...dark chocolate." (10)
Sulforaphane is found in broccoli and cruciferous vegetables and it reduces inflammation. All of these phytonutrients help promote anti-inflammatory Nrf2 which is part of our nighttime Circadian functions and inhibit inflammatory NFkB which is the action oriented, get things done, Circadian function of daytime living. Modern life has too much bright light at night and many of us are not switching over to the Nrf2 growth and repair pathways associated with a good night’s sleep. Blackout darkness is ideal at night. Our skin has photoreceptive capability and light is sensed during sleep and would reduce our melatonin production. During the day sunshine helps our mitochondria to make lots more melatonin than our pineal gland makes at night, but the mitochondria need sunshine. Eating sulforaphane rich broccoli is a little like giving our body some substitute darkness at night and helps us switch to the anti-inflammatory pathways our body needs to detoxify. We produce waste chemicals during a busy day and our mitochondria need us to make enough glutathione and eat antioxidants and iodine and magnesium to clear the oxidative stress chemicals.
EGCG and other Catechins are also flavonoids, and are found in green & black tea, apples, blackberries, dark chocolate, red wine, cherries, guava, pears, sweet potatoes & purple potatoes. (8, 7) Pomegranate fruit, juice and peel (G13.Pomegranate) is also a good source of EGCG and other catechins and ellagitannins. (24) EGCG may be protective as a preventive or treatment for Covid19. EGCG, a Green Tea Catechin, as a Potential Therapeutic Agent for Symptomatic and Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection (25)
Hydrolyzable tannins include ellagitannins and are found in pomegranate, goji berries and sumac. It provides diuretic effects in addition to reducing inflammation and has anti-microbial benefits and is healing to mucus membranes lining our gut. Excess however would be an irritant. Most phytonutrients are needed in small amounts and might be an irritant in excess or taste too bitter or smell too intense in larger amounts.
4. Pomegranate seems to be a particular fruit that you are passionate about. What are some of the unique health properties of pomegranates and the different parts of the fruit?
All parts of the pomegranate plant, flowers, leaves and the fruit and its peel, have potent phytonutrients. Research studies have found synergy in the phytonutrients - they are more powerful together rather than as isolated chemicals. Juice that is pressed from the whole fruit will have some of the phytonutrients from the peel too. The peel is more concentrated in the bitter phytonutrients that are particularly strong as antimicrobials. It also helps with wound healing, prevents cancer metastasis, heals lung, kidney and liver injury, improves Metabolic Syndrome, reduces inflammation and allergy symptoms.
The crunchy seeds have phospholipids which help us make endocannabinoids or ATP and are needed in membranes are particularly rich within brain tissue. The inner pith of pomegranate peel is milder than the outer rind and it is a good source of pectin. Pectin is a type of fiber which may help improve Metabolic Syndrome and protect against galectin-3 which is a risk factor for heart, liver, and kidney disease and is worsened by chimeric spike issues. The outer rind is so potent in diuretic tannins that I only use it in tea or extract but the inner pith can be dried and powdered and used similarly to citrus pectin for Metabolic Syndrome symptoms. Citrus peel is more effective at relieving congestion and asthma than pomegranate peel, but it may worsen histamine excess and Mast Cell overactivity, while pomegranate peel helps improve those problems. Preparation tips and a recipe are in the post Pomegranate Peel Prep Tips, and it has a link to a longer pdf for download. (Substack).
There is a long evidence trail about the benefits of pomegranate. Crowns look like a pomegranate blossom, not the other way around. An ancient king wanted a crown that looked like the blossom end of pomegranate.
5. A 2023 study showed pomegranate peel extract had anti-cancer effects, decreasing metastasis and increasing apoptosis of cancer cells with no negative impact on healthy cells. Why do you think more people aren't aware of pomegranate's potential in cancer treatment?
I think the benefits of pomegranate for general health more than pomegranate peel extract as a medicinal therapeutic is slowly getting into media more often now. As a ‘medicine’ there isn’t big money pharma funding it, so pomegranate gets presented in menu ideas instead. Some research about specific products exists though and that seems to be a need before something can be routinely recommended – a specific product can be standardized as a recommendation in a way that saying “eat pomegranate peel” is vague. “How much peel? In what foods?” or “Really? No way, too weird.” The clinical trial with a product would be the evidence needed for the FDA to approve a medical claim being made about a product.
Pomegranate peel is helpful for making nanoparticles as it chelates metals very effectively. Silver, gold, or zinc nanoparticles have been found to be strong antimicrobials. There are also a couple pomegranate fruit or peel extract products that have had very positive human clinical trials. Safety and effectiveness have been consistent across the research on pomegranate extracts for cancer (Rahman, et al., 2023) and many other conditions.
I have an unfinished academic style paper on pomegranate and histamine that turned into 70,000 words with extra tables of reference data. The tables of data are handy and include anticancer benefits: ‘Pomegranate Products for the Pain of Histamine Excess.’ (Pom pdf in my sync file)
Talking about the many health benefits from consuming pomegranate peel or extracts of the leaves would help because it is a new use of the plant. We are still in the early adopter phase of a new market. Interested consumers need to seek it out because it doesn’t have big money funding ads or stories on every news-stand.
From an environmental viewpoint, pomegranate is an easy to grow shrub that can handle drought and higher salt content soil. Using the whole fruit means we are wasting less. Pomegranate leaves can also be made into a medicinal extract. The seed oil does not have the same potency though. Water or alcohol extracts of the fruit or leaves will retain more of the potent antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory benefits. Over-heating or leaving an extract exposed to oxygen in the air will break down the medicinal phytonutrients. It will store better when acidic and will appear pink. Add more alkalinity and the tannins turn brown or yellowish.
Citrus peel is commonly used as a food, but pomegranate hasn’t been moved into that category mentally for most people and that likely includes most health practitioners and dietitians too.
I started with pomegranate when my anxiety was at abnormal levels due to histamine excess, but I didn’t know the cause at the time. Eating pomegranate seeds seemed like a miracle though and later pomegranate peel also worked to keep my extreme anxiety under control. I was caught by surprise at the end of growing season the year I started using pomegranate daily – half a fruit worth of seeds per day or half in the morning and half later in the day on bad days.
I will give some background information as histamine can cause life threatening mental symptoms which are generally not diagnosed or treated as a histamine problem. It may be a “LongCovid” problem too. Histamine excess can lead to severe paranoia or mania and may include suicidal urges – it did for me. And even homicidal or homicide/suicide may be a risk that is not discussed openly by the psychiatric or medical communities. The akathisia symptoms that can develop with use or after withdrawal of psychiatric medications or other meds including benzodiazepine, seems to be similar to the symptoms I had which were resolved by avoiding histamine trigger foods and increasing things like pomegranate. Inhaled cannabinoids of both THC and CBD also help prevent mast cell degranulation and higher dose flush niacin or butyrate would also help. Many of the phytonutrients I mentioned in a previous answer would also help such as quercetin and luteolin. Fennel Essential Oil or fennel as a vegetable also soothes histamine symptoms.
My sharing the good news about pomegranate products as anti-cancer agents is also based on my father’s extended time on Hospice under my care after sudden turbocancer post three jabs. He was at home for almost 16 months. My mother has had turbocancer lumps appear a year ago and they spread but now seem stable and she has regained some function from her Alzheimer’s dementia. Pomegranate juice is a daily thing but there are other strategies that have helped her too. No one thing is really all the body needs. And we need sunshine like it is a daily food too – which it is. Our cells can do some photosynthesis and literally create energy from sunlight, and we need sun for sulphate metabolism in addition to vitamin D and A balance.
Vitamin D is created in sunshine and vitamin A is used up which can help prevent too much active vitamin A from accumulating if that is a tendency which may be occurring after a drug injury leading to akathisia, or after Epstein Barr Virus left symptoms of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Chronic fatigue symptoms may be inflammation due to excess activated Retinoic acid, vitamin A’s active form and that also leaves elevated levels of histamine. Gene differences leave my mother and me likely to have excess histamine as two enzymes exist to break it down and I have dysfunctional genes for both. Supplements exist but that adds a monthly cost for the rest of your life. Buying pomegranate and freezing or drying the peel is a lot cheaper. I do have to avoid histamine trigger foods too. This problem may also be a major underlying problem for LongCovid sufferers too.
6. Can you explain in simple terms how pomegranate helps protect against the harmful effects of spike proteins?
Phytonutrients and the pectin of pomegranate inner pith can help protect us from chimeric spike effects in a dozen or more ways. It has potent antimicrobial benefits and would also help protect against gut dysbiosis and comorbid infections from developing. Immune dysfunction following CoV injections has been. The chimeric spike has sequences similar to other pathogenic microbes – it is a chimeric protein containing a zoo of other critters, not just a couple species. And it is a pathogenic zoo.
Buckle up for safety, we have a way to go when listing how pomegranate products help block or protect us from chimeric spike effects. This list is in part from the post: Ways Pomegranate Protects Against Spike, (deNutrients.Substack), and more references are in my paper ‘Pomegranate Products for the Pain of Histamine Excess’ – CoV issues can include histamine excess too and a section on chimeric spike is included. (Pom pdf in my sync file)
i. Phytonutrients in pomegranate peel extract or the fruit blocks entry at ACE2 (Suručić, et al., 2021; Tito, et al., 2021) and TMPRSS receptors and preserves the function of both types of receptors.
ii. Pomegranate juice or extract has been found to inhibit cleavage of the HIV-1 like gp120 protein, which would prevent entry of genetic material into cells after membrane fusion occurs. It may do the same for SARS-CoV-2 and that would help protect nAChR function as the free S1 can block it (injection version more so than the early outbreak version). Ferroportin and dectin-1 receptors would also be indirectly protected by reduced cleavage taking place which would leave less free floating S1 subsection. Then less S1 could enter various receptor types and increase inflammation and disrupt function. Autoimmune antibodies are also more likely to form against a receptor type that has spike in it. Reduced cleavage would also help reduce uptake by a cell and replication of the genetic contents of a virus or exosome that has chimeric spike on its surface. The injection Lipid Nanoparticles enter the cell by a different method though. Pomegranate peel would help protect from the cells that did start producing chimeric spike exosomes. This is spreading passively from injected people to un-injected people – but the injections are worse in the increased amount of spike production and the other known ingredients or random contaminants that are in the mix add to potential harm.
iii. Pomegranate phytonutrients act as a modulator for inflammation and immune function, promoting or inhibiting as needed for the situation - restoring balance with up or down regulation as needed by the situation. Pomegranate can help allergy or autoimmune over-activity and would protect against inflammation induced by endotoxin effects of the chimeric spike - bacterial SEB enterotoxin. Spike protein has a sequence like superantigen staphylococcal enterotoxin B, which is considered a bioweapon. It also has a section like bacterial endotoxin Lipopolysaccharide LPS. Inflammation caused by spike or modern life stressors can become a positive feedback loop. Pomegranate peel or other anti-inflammatory phytonutrients or vitamins like niacin and vitamin C and magnesium would help disrupt the escalating spiral of hyperinflammation. Early treatment is critical because inflammation is hard to stop, or to reverse, compared to preventing the initial escalation. The high dose intravenous vitamin C and thiamine protocol by Dr. Marik would help when hyperinflammation is occurring. That is not standardly available in our current medicine based system, so prevention is better than hoping that a helpful treatment will be allowed.
iv. Pomegranate promotes Nrf2 which helps promote DNA damage repair, glutathione production, and immune function. That helps reduce inflammation and protects against cancer or Parkinson’s disease – a condition that involves gene damage.
v. Pomegranate contains potent antioxidants that also counteract inflammation in addition to promoting Nrf2 and our own glutathione production.
vi. Pomegranate inhibits NET formation which leads to (killer) inflammasome creation which can kill healthy cells in autoimmune disease. Chimeric spike triggers inflammasome creation.
vii. Pomegranate extract protects against cancer and cancer metastasis in particular.
viii. Pomegranate protects against liver, kidney, and brain damage risks from hyperinflammation and can help with wound healing. The microbiome benefits are so good, however, that it was not found helpful for post intestinal surgery wound healing.
ix. The inner pith of pomegranate contains pectin which helps protect against galectin-3 effects which chimeric spike increases as it contains a similar sequence. Excess galectin- increases risk to the liver, kidneys, and heart. Eating the pith would have health benefits that a capsule extract product would not provide.
x. Pomegranate polyphenols help stabilize protein shape and protects against misfolded protein conditions (prions) which chimeric spike seems to increase as it contains sections that are prion like. Pomegranate can bind with heavy metals or other chemicals with a positive charge like the chimeric spike and then white blood cells can remove the clumped material as waste. Nanoparticles can be dangerous because they are too small for white blood cells to recognize as something to clean up.
xi. Pomegranate products improve gut health, skin, membrane and cardiovascular health; and promotes a beneficial microbiome balance of butyrate producing species including Bifidobacterium, (George, et al, 2019), a species the chimeric spike depletes preferentially. See the post: Bifidobacterium, CoV, Sabine Hazan, and butyrate producing colon species. Feed them well and you are feeding yourself well too! Vitamin C, D, zinc, inulin, arabinoxylan, and pomegranate peel help support bifidobacterium and butyrate producing species of the microbiome. (Substack). The juice has enough antimicrobial benefits that it is effective as a tooth-brushing substitute. (Kote, Kote, Nagesh, 2011) Beneficial microbiome species are promoted and bad species are killed off – which is the best kind of antibiotic. Spike issues make other bacterial or viral infections more likely and can worsen the effects of bacterial endotoxins contained in spike. Two were mentioned earlier - SEB and LPS. Pomegranate products seem to reduce negative effects of the toxins in addition to protecting against the bacteria.
xii. Pomegranate juice and fruit provide many of these benefits but not all, as the peel is more potent for anti-viral and other benefits because of a greater concentration of bitter tasting phytonutrients. Bitter taste receptors are found throughout the body where they perform functional roles other than “tasting” a bitter taste as they would if they were on the tongue. Within the lungs bitter citrus peel nutrients open the airways and increase mucus flow up and out of the lungs. Within the gut citrus or pomegranate peel bitter nutrients help curb appetite and prevent insulin resistance. Both can help improve symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome which is a risk for worse infections or worse post-infection symptoms (like LongCovid). (Perakakis, et al., 2023)
7. You shared an article by Sayer Ji discussing how pomegranate juice was found to reduce plaque in the carotid arteries by up to 30% and may be a natural alternative to coronary bypass surgery. What is your view on using food as medicine for serious heart disease?
I think food is the best medicine for heart disease depending on the food choices. Milk sugar protects against heart disease risks from elevated galectin-3 in addition to pectin. Pectin’s role in reducing damage from galectin-3 was mentioned regarding the many ways pomegranate peel can protect us from chimeric spike effects.
The post: Why Pomegranate Juice is 'Roto-Rooter' for the Arteries - Sayer Ji, *a repost from GreenMedInfo regarding reversing atherosclerosis and arterial stenosis with ~ 8 ounces of pomegranate juice per day. (Substack)
Magnesium, zinc, selenium and iodine are critical for heart health and for the electrical flow of our body. The pathways of the Prime Meridian system used for acupuncture and acupressure have been found to represent a physical vascular system with nodes at the acupoints in which stem cells are made. It is called the Primo Vascular System. “Primo-” because it forms in a developing baby before the blood and lymphatic vessels form. The stem cell production is likely part of embryological development.
There have been revolutionary findings related to heart function and electrical flow. Structured water is electrically active in a way that standard water is not, and it is thicker, more viscous like a thin syrup or semi-solid like a gelatine dessert. Phytonutrients help support the electrically active structured water that surrounds proteins within a cell or outside of it. The heart has been found to have a vortex effect on blood flow which would be electrically structuring the fluid of the blood serum. Congestive Heart Failure is a condition with excess fluid accumulating within the heart and that causes the vortex action to be lost. Fatigue is significant because there is also less oxygenated blood circulating than in normal health but also because the body would have less structured fluid circulating which means less energy, quantum rates for chemical reactions would be lost.
EMF and radiation exposure disrupts our electrical flow and is a significant factor in the historical increase in cardiovascular conditions. Heart disease was uncommon in times prior to the introduction of electricity. It was considered a rich man’s disease – for those who could afford to eat rich foods in excess and were able to sit too much instead of having a physical job. High carbohydrate and high sugar diets are also a risk factor and that leaves modern life with too many camel straws adding up for our collective health. EMF and radiation, a hectic stressful pace to the working world and information consumption world, and foods that have had protective bitter tasting phytonutrients removed, minerals lost to glyphosate or phytic acid, and too many simple carbohydrates are all camel straws adding to a burden of hyperinflammation.
A drop in sodium content in the diet was for helping ‘high blood pressure’, but the goal was dropped so low that the new recommended amount may have left some people with too little sodium or the new processed food guidelines may have had companies adding more glutamate seasonings to make up for the lower salt content – and glutamate adds to addictive overeating, excess dopamine stimulation, and brain excitotoxicity can result. Pomegranate peel or other phytonutrients would help, or niacin and butyrate. Magnesium adequacy would help the blood pressure more than excessively limiting sodium and increasing potassium would also likely help. The risk of high levels of salt intake seems to be greater when there is also low potassium intake – which can be common for anyone who doesn’t eat many vegetables or fruits.
A dietary recommendation for polyphenols as an essential nutrient for cardiometabolic health has been set at 400/600 mg per day made by an advisory panel of the Academy for Nutrition and Dietetics. EGCG type of flavanols are included in the recommended phytonutrient group. This goal would help heart health and Metabolic Syndrome too. Tea, apples, and berries are mentioned as sources. (Crowe-White, et al, 2022) Pomegranate is a source of flavanols and was a better source of gallocatechins (ellagitannins) than other Spanish foods tested. (de Pascual-Teresa, et al, 2000) Intake of more dietary flavonoids on average was also associated with a reduced cancer risk. (19)
Flavonoids including luteolin, quercetin and apigenin, help prevent breakdown of NAD+, preserving niacin levels. (Rajman, Chwalek, Sinclair, 2018) Niacin is protective against lipid imbalance and helps mitochondrial function and energy production. Unlike other B vitamins, typically rich in grains and plant foods, niacin, vitamin B3, is rich in meats and also coffee. Vegan diets may be low in niacin, B12, choline, and cholesterol and are not necessarily “heart smart”.
8. Moving to iodine, you've stated that iodine deficiency is linked to many health issues like fibrocystic breast disease, hypothyroidism, diabetes, obesity and certain cancers. Why do you think iodine deficiency is so widespread today?
It seems purposeful, either as a population control method, a bomb industry cover-up of employee harm, or to help make radioactive iodine use more ‘effective’ - more would be taken up by someone whose body was deficient in iodine and then an Xray screening for thyroid cancer would be clear. Of course, iodine deficiency is adding to the cancer risk but that isn’t discussed. In the 1950’s the use of fluoride in bomb making factories caused significant employee harm. Law cases ended up being lost when the defence attorney’s expert dentists embraced fluoridated toothpaste to help protect children’s teeth from cavities – based on one rat study that showed fluoride uptake by the teeth. How could fluoride be bad if it is good for kids? Well, because that was more of a lie than the truth. Fluoride can make teeth and bones more dense but also more brittle. Magnesium within the bone matrix adds flexibility to the bone tissue so it is less brittle. (Castiglioni, et al., 2013)
In the 1950s potassium iodide as an anti-caking agent in flour was replaced with potassium bromide. Bromide is more of a toxin than a food ingredient as it and fluoride can compete with iodine and be incorporated into molecules of thyroid hormone which would make the hormone dysfunctional but levels of thyroid hormone on a lab test would seem ‘normal’. Chloride may also. The three are halides which is a chemical group that includes iodide too.
Doing some generational math places us at three and a half generations of babies born from women who had too little iodine compared to the other halides. With each generation and each pregnancy, women will have less iodine for their next pregnancy. Recommended intake guidelines of iodine are inadequate for optimal health or to compensate for the bromide and fluoride in our food and water supply. Congenital hypothyroidism can be improved if the baby is given iodine shortly after birth however that is not routinely done.
No one is routinely treated with iodine in the current medical system. Someone who does test low in thyroid hormone will be treated with synthetic thyroid hormone like Synthroid which might help thyroid function, but it is not providing iodine for any other uses. Every endocrine gland needs iodine, not just the thyroid gland. It just gets first pick so if it is low, then the other glands will be even lower in iodine and that includes the mammary glands. Lack of iodine likely adds to cancer risk because iodine also supports mitochondrial function in critical ways and without mitochondrial and cytoplasm methylation cycle function we won’t have epigenetic regulation of the cell’s genes.
Tumours are like a growing baby – rapid growth, fully activated, no brakes. Epigenetic control by healthy mitochondrial methylation are the brakes that our cells need to perform only the desired functions instead of being in rapid growth, fully ‘turned on’ mode. Lots of nutrients are needed for proper methylation and iodine is one of the group that may get forgotten because it protects mitochondria in ways that are not directly part of methylation cycle pathways. But without the iodine, the mitochondria won’t function as well in more general ways.
Iodine and thyroid function also impact the function of the heart: “While T4 is the major product secreted by the thyroid gland, T3 exerts the majority of the physiological effects of the thyroid hormones; T4 and T3 have a relative potency of ~1:4 (T4:T3). T4 and T3 act on nearly every cell of the body but have a particularly strong effect on the cardiac system. As a result, many cardiac functions including heart rate, cardiac output, and systemic vascular resistance are closely linked to thyroid status.” (Levothyroxine/Synthroid)
Iodine seems critical to our being able to have the quantum rate of energy flow within our cardiovascular system and within mitochondria. Without the faster speed, chemical reactions are slower and take more energy – if we don’t have more energy, than our metabolic reactions can’t happen – we will be more tired and maybe not able to think very well either – brain fog.
9. The "Wolff–Chaikoff effect" suggesting that high iodine intake reduces thyroid hormones seems to still be cited by many doctors to discourage iodine supplementation. What are your thoughts on this and do you believe there is an intentional effort to keep people deficient in iodine?
I do think there was an intentional effort to promote iodine deficiency at some level, but I also believe that a majority of health practitioners who were trained in those beliefs, likely just are wrong and don’t realize that they were trained with wrong information. The gist of the Wolff-Chaikoff misunderstanding seems to be that once a rat becomes replete in iodine – sufficient in iodine – rapid uptake of iodine by the thyroid gland stops. This was taken to mean that iodine causes thyroid dysfunction, rather than that rapid uptake of iodine by the thyroid gland is an indicator of insufficient levels of iodine being present. At this point the erroneous conclusion is cited as fact in practically every textbook and research study that addresses iodine in some way.
See my post: Iodine and an old lie, still being spread, (Substack)
And the standard of care is to provide very little iodine for most conditions. Breaking the standard of care recommendations we have learned during CoV era, can lead to a physician being reprimanded, fined, or legally charged. We don’t have medical freedom for patients or physicians in the current health care system.
Prior to the introduction of petroleum-based products as “medicine”, iodine was extensively used to treat many types of conditions. The abrupt switch to not using iodine as a treatment occurred around the 1950s and coincided with increased use of radioactive iodine in X-rays and as a “treatment” for thyroid cancer.
10. Fluoride and bromide are halogens that can compete with iodine. You've mentioned that fluoride has been added to water supplies and bromide to flour. Do you think this is contributing to iodine deficiency and if so, was this done deliberately in your opinion?
I suspect it was purposeful as whistleblower accounts suggest it was on purpose. Lowering iodine in a population and increasing fluoride would promote apathy and lead to a drop in average IQ by as much 15 points. As congenital hypothyroidism increased in frequency in newborns, the children might have an even greater reduction in their IQ compared to what their healthy potential might have been. I immediately thought the comedy movie Idiocracy was a documentary in disguise – the population several generations farther along with iodine deficiency causing reduced cognitive skills.
For a chemistry review: “A halide ion is a halogen atom bearing a negative charge. The halide anions are fluoride (F −), chloride (Cl −), bromide (Br −), iodide (I −) and astatide (At −). Such ions are present in all ionic halide salts.” (Wikipedia)
Within live tissue, iodine or the other halogens wouldn’t be present except in an ionic form likely bound to some other positive ion.
11. You've shared your own experience with high dose iodine improving your fibrocystic breast disease, energy levels and weight. Can you talk more about iodine's role in breast health for women and the protocol you followed?
I followed a protocol by Dr. Brownstein, but I attended a presentation he gave rather than seeing him as a patient and I messed up by not taking selenium in addition to high dose iodine. The basic goal is to take a very high dose of iodine/iodide for one month to flood the body so that atoms of fluoride, bromide and chloride could be replaced with iodine. Lack of iodine over time can leave the body with dysfunctional thyroid hormone that doesn’t contain iodine. The T3 or T4 hormone might show up on a lab test as “normal levels” but it would be dysfunctional due to the presence of one of the other halides instead of three or four atoms of iodine that should be present. Dr. Brownstein spoke in a recent webinar about breast cancer and iodine in an interview by Dr. Devaki Lindsey Berkson which is available for free on her Agile Thinking Substack.
Selenium is important to have too because it is needed for the enzyme that breaks down excessive thyroid hormone. The supplement I used is called Iodoral and it has 12.5 milligrams of iodine and iodide. The loading dose was four tablets a day, two in the morning and two at night. I did notice a change in fibrocystic breast pain early in that process and I haven’t had the problem since except when I was getting low in iodine again. On reading more about cysts, it seems that cysts are related to iodine deficiency wherever the cysts show up in the body.
Iodine seems involved in fluid production and excretion by glands and lack of it may be related to vaginal dryness or dry eyes. Low magnesium is also a factor in dry eyes though and magnesium rich delphinidin can help with that. Delphinidin has four atoms of magnesium and is a colourful anthocyanin found in purple and red produce or black varieties of beans, rice, or sesame seeds.
Women need more iodine during pregnancy and lactation for the baby and for themselves. Children in low iodine areas were less deficient than their mothers. Breast milk has been found to be low in iodine in many nations. For details see the post: Iodine in pregnancy & lactation; also estradiol, anandamide and female tendency for a good mood. (Substack).
12. For those who suspect they may be deficient in nutrients like iodine and magnesium, what are some signs and symptoms to look out for and what testing do you recommend?
Symptoms of iodine deficiency might include feeling cold easily, tired, and depressed, and thinning hair is common with a characteristic loss of the outer third of the eyebrows. Constipation might be a problem and apathy, not feeling like anything matters that much and little drive to change or do anything – and increased levels of tiredness adds to that. Loss of sex drive, or loss of ‘mojo’ – lack of interest or not being able to reach sexual climax when trying, may also be a symptom. My webpage (G9. Iodine & Thyroid) has more information about symptoms and the protocol that I followed to feel better.
The symptoms of hypothyroidism can creep up on you so that you don’t realize that you are doing far less than you used to do in a day. After I started the high dose iodine, I suddenly wasn’t eating little bits of this or that all evening. I was simply satisfied. I think my body had been seeking the iodine. I lost excess weight easily instead of the weight going nowhere but up. I also noticed at Christmas time that I was enjoying holiday shopping and had spent four hours going to many stores without needing a single break. I had gotten in the habit of only doing a couple of errands at a time as it was just too tiring to do more.
Fibrocystic breast pain is related to iodine deficiency. Low iodine levels are seen in heart disease and hypothyroidism, and low iodine tends to be seen in mothers of children who developed autism.
Minerals and hormones are team players. Lack of magnesium can interfere with vitamin D metabolism and thyroid hormone function can affect or be affected by hormone D and activated vitamin A (Retinoic Acid).
Symptoms of magnesium deficiency can also include depression, anxiety, anger or short temper – poor stress tolerance, muscle cramps, headaches, high blood pressure, insulin resistance and Type 2 diabetes, heart disease or atherosclerosis, Tinnitus, dry eyes, low vitamin D, low potassium, low calcium. The drop in calcium and potassium is because the body compensates for the low magnesium – the electrolytes need to be in balance with each other.
For screening, a test for the magnesium within a red blood cell is needed rather than the blood level. Most of our magnesium is in cells or in the bone tissue. Only one percent is in the blood supply.
Iodine levels are checked by giving a high dose of iodine, then urine is collected for 24 hours and that is checked for the iodine level. A person who is deficient will have taken up a large portion of the dose of iodine while someone who had plenty of iodine would excrete most of it. Dr. Brownstein also checked urine for excretion of bromide and fluoride during his loading stage, very high dose iodine protocol and found it did lead to increased excretion of them while iodine was being retained at a ‘deficient person’ rate. At this point in time, 2024 minus 1950 equals 74 years of reduced iodine intake and increased intake of bromide and fluoride – most of us were born after the drop in iodine availability and increase in other halides. Our youngest generations are being born from women whose mothers were born after the policy changes about the water supply and bread flour. Three generations of iodine inadequacy seems to be showing up as increased autism and gender dysphoria. Someone born with congenital hypothyroidism likely will grow up having little to no sex drive – not feeling the feelings that other people are used to feeling. Yet they are part of a culture that has overt sexuality on every other advertisement and TV show. It would likely be confusing.
Taking iodine might help aspects of health and energy and may increase IQ for people born with too little, but it is the baby that needs it if there is hope for more normal development throughout childhood. Pregnant and lactating women should take a bit more iodine than current recommendations for the baby’s sake and for their own long-term health. Research suggests that each pregnancy is depleting iodine stores and leaving later babies more at risk for developing with too little iodine available.
13. What are some key food sources of iodine and magnesium that you recommend people include in their diets? Any foods to avoid?
Seaweeds are rich sources of iodine naturally and rhubarb because it uptakes iodine preferentially. Any seafood or crops grown closer to the ocean will have more than inland crops. Coconut is a good source for that reason – grows near oceans usually. One or two Brazil nuts per day provides selenium. My webpage (G9. Iodine & Thyroid) has more information.
Foods to avoid, to help iodine levels, include commercial flour products, and beverages may contain brominated vegetable oil, or BVO. It is an emulsifier added to orange-flavoured drinks to keep the citrus oil mixed. The FDA proposed banning it last year as liver, heart and brain damage may be health risks. PepsiCo removed it from Mountain Dew in 2014 due to increased consumer activism. There is power in the pocketbook – in the consumer purchasing dollar.
Fluoridated water is used to make other processed foods, so things like chicken nuggets can have a lot. It is better not to mix baby formula with fluoridated water even though that is recommended. Powdered formula may already have fluoride that was concentrated along with the liquid ingredients. The CDC website does tell us that. (cdc.gov/fluoridation/faqs/infant-formula.html)
There are other foods that can reduce thyroid function including cruciferous vegetables like cabbage, also soy products, cassava and millet. (Babiker, et al., 2020)
Magnesium rich foods include beans, nuts, seeds, whole grains, green leafy vegetables, sweet potatoes and other produce. Adequate protein and phospholipids are needed for us to be able to keep a backstock of magnesium in a non-electrically active form. It is part of our energy production system as it is typically bound to ATP, adenosine triphosphate, the molecule used in methylation cycles to make energy from glucose available for use in other chemical reactions. For more information about food sources and supplement or topical sources of magnesium see my post: To have optimal magnesium requires adequate protein and phospholipids, (denutrients.substack.com)
14. If someone wants to supplement with iodine or magnesium, what form and dosage do you typically suggest starting with? Any co-nutrients that should be taken with them?
Typical one-a-day supplements or prenatal supplements tend to have the lowish, RDA, level of iodine at 150 mcg. Adding a 400 mg kelp supplement would increase it to a more reasonable amount. The much higher dose of 12.5 mg provided in an Iodoral supplement is equivalent to the average iodine intake of the Japanese with their seaweed rich diet ... and they have low breast cancer rates. My webpage (G9. Iodine & Thyroid) has more information.
Eating seaweed provides additional minerals and the beneficial monosaccharide fucose. Brown seaweed provides fucoidan, which may also help against breast cancer. (Wu, et al., 2016) Brown seaweed types with fucoidan include wakame, kombu and wracks.
Betadine is an antiseptic for topical use which some people also use as an iodine supplement that is absorbed through the skin. How quickly a one-inch square painted on the skin disappears/is absorbed is sometimes used as a screening method to assess iodine deficiency.
Magnesium supplements are a little more complex and anyone with gut symptoms or chronic inflammation may not be absorbing it well. Topical baths or foot soaks or lotions with magnesium chloride or Mg sulfate, Epsom salt, might be better absorbed. Chelated forms might work but can be a little more expensive than poorly absorbed magnesium oxide. Chelated means that the mineral is bound to a protein or other chemical. Magnesium glycinate, threonate and citrate are examples of chelated magnesium supplements. Adequate protein and phospholipids are needed for us to be able to hold a backstock of magnesium within the cells. It cannot roam around as an electrically free ion so if our diet is low in protein, then we can lack mineral transport proteins. Picture magnesium needing its own taxicab, but there are no taxi cabs – and the kidneys will remove free magnesium.
The kidneys tend to spare calcium as that mineral is rare in the wild food supply – bird shells, small fish bones and some in beans, nuts, seeds and grains but pre-soaking is important or the phytic acid binds with minerals, so they stay in the gut instead of being absorbed.
Phospholipids are in the membranes of orange slices or seed coatings and are rich in leaves; your green leafy vegetable salad has magnesium rich chlorophyll too. Phospholipids are also rich in animal parts that have more membranous bits like the skin and gristle and organ meats and the brain. We need phospholipids for our muscles and our brain tissue too. And for making the ATP, Adenosine-triphosphate, which magnesium partners with to provide us usable energy from our food. For more information about supplement or topical sources of magnesium see my post: To have optimal magnesium requires adequate protein and phospholipids, (Substack)
15. What projects are you currently working on and what's next for you in your mission to educate people about the power of nutrients and natural medicines? Where can people best stay connected with your work?
Thanks for asking. I have been working on making online courses and plan to set up a virtual clinic or student portal too. I have drafts started for a course about the chimeric spike and the idea that virus, virology and COVID19 are all fake and chimeric spike is too – even the immune system is fake or wrong! I don’t agree – lots of fraud has certainly happened, very true, but real gene edited products were created which are really harming some people and the environment. The course will include Terrain building strategies – how to be healthier so we are less likely to get sick to any new Mystery Disease X, or to have milder symptoms. (Draft presentation, 2 hours long.)
Another course draft is on mood meltdowns and how diet choices can make that more likely to happen and how to choose things that prevent Hangry or Hanxious moods. The spoiler – when we are so hungry we are now angry or anxious, it is too late. Eating was needed a while ago and now nausea and no appetite may be happening along with the mood meltdown. Hangry and Hanxious are two faces of the fear response – fight or flight/freeze. Nausea and digestive symptoms can occur along with the stress response. The big take home point is to pack a snack or eat more regularly with foods that avoid simple carbs. Meals or snacks without protein, fat, or fiber content which slows digestion, can lead to a sugar lift in mood followed by a mood crash which may also have symptoms of nausea. Social media viral “Karen” videos might have been anxiety or anger mood meltdowns that may have been preventable if a snack or lunch break had been taken an hour prior to the meltdown event. (Draft presentation, ~ 30 minutes)
The best way to keep in touch with me for updates is by subscribing to my Substack newsletter: deNutrients.Substack.com. I also have informational sites to read at your leisure including jenniferdepew.com, effectivecare.info and peace-is-happy.org. Find me on Twitter/X @denutrients or on Telegram: deNutrients News to Use, a channel with deNutrients Chat group attached. Topics get a little wild in the chat group, fair warning. Thanks for your interest and I hope to see you in my comments or social media stream.
Disclaimer: This information is being provided for educational purposes within the guidelines of Fair Use and is not intended to provide individual health care guidance.
References
Pomegranate references can be found in this document: ‘Pomegranate Products for the Pain of Histamine Excess.’ (Pom pdf in my sync file)
Useful, not linked in the text: Adenosine triphosphate Magnesium, ScienceDirect, https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/adenosine-triphosphate-magnesium See: Type II Diabetes, Peripheral Neuropathy, and Gout, Susan Ettinger, in Nutritional Pathophysiology of Obesity and its Comorbidities, 2017; and: Magnesium and Alzheimer's disease, Dènahin Hinnoutondji Toffa, Jimmy Li, in Vitamins and Minerals in Neurological Disorders, 2023.
EMF nonprofit not mentioned in the text, useful information: https://ehtrust.org/home/
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Thank you for this fantastic interview. I will need to reread it several times to internalize all the information. I think Jennifer should write a book.
1) "The T3 or T4 hormone might show up on a lab test as “normal levels” but it would be dysfunctional due to the presence of one of the other halides instead of three or four atoms of iodine that should be present."
I can attest to this one. I struggled for decades with fatigue, feeling cold all the time, etc. Multiple bloods test reflected "normal results." Finally, a holistic chiro started me on iodine (standard process). It only took 30 days to see MAJOR improvements.
2) My 2-cents of additional input on cholorides: I'm a swimmer. The chlorine in pools can easily displace iodine ... so I still take iodine supplement with that reason added to the list.